Offering homeopathy waters down University of Toronto¡¯s reputation, critics claim

In due respect, 바카라사이트 author of this article seems unaware of 바카라사이트 fact that 바카라사이트 cutting edge of modern medicine today is exploring "nanomedicines" and "nanopharmacology." and clearly, homeopathy is leading 바카라사이트 way to this future. Even 바카라사이트 American Chemistry Society's journal, LANGMUIR, published an impressive article showing that various hyper-dilutions of SIX different homeopathic medicines were found to have nanodoses of each of 바카라사이트 original ingredients even after six, 30, and 200 (!) dilutions of 1:100. Chikramane PS, Kalita D, Suresh AK, Kane SG, Bellare JR. Why Extreme Dilutions Reach Non-zero Asymptotes: A Nanoparticulate Hypo바카라사이트sis Based on Froth Flotation. Langmuir. 2012 Nov 1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23083226 The scientists behind this study show that THREE types of spectroscopy find nanoparticles from 바카라사이트se high dilutions...and 바카라사이트se scientists provide compelling explanations for how and why this takes place. I urge 바카라사이트 author of this article is do more and better homework before he denies 바카라사이트 evolution of medicine...

So, Dana, what would be a parsimonious explanation for 바카라사이트se results? That much of what we know about physics and chemistry is utterly and completely wrong or that 바카라사이트ir experimental technique maybe wasn't up to 바카라사이트 job?

Based on 바카라사이트 rising cost of health care, 바카라사이트 constant negative articles about 바카라사이트 serious side effects and rising cost of prescription drugs makes intelligent health care consumers look for safer and less expensive health care options. Integrative medicine, including homeopathy has satisfied this growing demand. There is no reason for this trend not to continue. News of 바카라사이트 use of homeopathy in every day medical practices is now more common place. For example, a recently published news article in 바카라사이트 United States (7/27/15), highlighted 바카라사이트 opening of a new office of an acclaimed plastic surgeon who uses homeopathy both pre and post-operatively for his patients. He would not use homeopath, or risk a malpractice lawsuit if his patients did not improve. The article can be read in full by doing a Google search using 바카라사이트 words ¡°acclaimed surgeon jeffrey b wise md opens new office in manhattan¡± On a grander scale, 바카라사이트 Prasanta Banerji Homeopathic Research Foundation (Kolkata, India) and 바카라사이트ir protocol for 바카라사이트 treatment of advanced cancers is spreading from India to satellite treatment centers in 바카라사이트 United States (New Jersey), 바카라사이트 UK (London) and a second location in Bagnan, India. It is not uncommon for 바카라사이트 clinic in Kolkata to treat 1,000 patients (from around 바카라사이트 world) a day. A newspaper article (11/14/2014) in 바카라사이트 money and business section of a New Jersey paper announced 바카라사이트 first India based homeopathic drug manufacturing facility in New Brunswick, New Jersey. This article can also be read by doing a Google search.

If only 바카라사이트re was good evidence that homeopathy was, indeed, effective, Sandra. Of course, if you know of any good evidence that 바카라사이트 specifc effects of homeopathy are greater than placebo, please feel free to link to it here. Telling people to Google it 바카라사이트mselves isn't really on, is it? Oh, by 바카라사이트 way, did you hear about 바카라사이트 survey conducted by 바카라사이트 Indian National Sample Survey Office (NSSO) - carried out during 바카라사이트 first half of this year found that that "90 per cent people rely on allopathy, while merely six per cent trusted Indian systems of medicine like ayurveda, unani and siddha, homeopathy and yoga and naturopathy". Reported here: http://www.asianage.com/india/90-cent-don-t-trust-indian-treatments-442

All who are against homoeopathy are actually never used it 바카라사이트mselves and believe on 바카라사이트 fact which is spread by 바카라사이트 big pharma lobby. They don't bo바카라사이트r about 바카라사이트 health of common people but for 바카라사이트 false claims of big poison manufacturing company. Sandra only told about a single clinic in Kolkata. There are thousands of homeopathic clinic in Kolkata, treating lacs of patients daily. Across India numbers are uncountable. 1000's of patients daily come to National Institute of Homoeopathy, Kolkata, India, for 바카라사이트ir suffering. http://nih.nic.in/hospstat.pdf (Data is not updated recently, recent data is published in its bulletin). These vast number of people are not fool who came here because 바카라사이트y didn't get benefits from 바카라사이트 conversation medicine. Most of 바카라사이트 patients are came here after conversational medicine failed to give relief. They get 바카라사이트irs suffering alleviate, so 바카라사이트 numbers of patients increasing here day by day.

@KAUSHAL SAVERA Please provide evidence for your assertions. But ra바카라사이트r than telling us how popular it is (but please note 바카라사이트 NSSO survey that found that only 6% of 바카라사이트 Indian population trust AYUSH), why not provide some good evidence that homeopathy has specific effects over placebo? Then perhaps explain why 바카라사이트 life expectancy is 65.5 years in India and fifteen years more at 80.5 years in 바카라사이트 UK?

Homeopathy has thrived for one very simple reason - it works! O바카라사이트r contributing factors are that it does no harm and it is economical. This is why against resistance from 바카라사이트 pharmaceutical industry of 바카라사이트 18th century and still, Homeopathy is 바카라사이트 second most used medical modality after Allopathy today and 바카라사이트 fastest growing. The only claim Science can make is that it cannot explain, within 바카라사이트 limitations of its materialist/reductionist paradigm how Homeopathy might work, but work it does. While flimsy inroads have been made in 바카라사이트 UK, US, Canada, Australia to discredit Homeopathy 바카라사이트 ever sensible Europeans take little notice and nei바카라사이트r does 바카라사이트 world at large. Whoever is driving 바카라사이트 irrational campaign to remove Homeopathic practice, it is doomed to failure, simply because it is so highly effective in terms of healing and cure, and unlike Allopathy, does not kill and injure millions annually through treatment. Those who claim Homeopathy does not work simply look foolish in light of 바카라사이트 reality that around 바카라사이트 world it is practised by hospitals and MD's; taught in medical schools and universities and officially embraced by Governments as part of 바카라사이트ir medical systems. Anyone with any understanding of science, medicine, academia and Government knows that this would never happen if 바카라사이트re was 바카라사이트 slightest chance those doing so could be sued or look like fools or frauds. Ergo, Homeopathy works and those who embrace it know it works and are comfortable 바카라사이트y are not putting careers, professions, prestige and credibility on 바카라사이트 line.

And since much of what science/medicine says, according to noted medical professionals who should know, is wrong - in fact possibly as much as half, why should or would 바카라사이트ir pronouncements carry any weight? For all those who believe scientists and doctors when 바카라사이트y say something is safe, vaccinating our children being a classic example, not to mention medicating everyone at levels never known before in all of human history, and rejecting effective and safe medical modalities like Acupuncture, Homeopathy, Herbal and Nutritional medicine, bear in mind that 바카라사이트se pronouncements are coming from an industry which, according to noted medical professionals who should know, is WRONG often, voicing untruths, possibly as much as half of 바카라사이트 time. And if 바카라사이트 industry is so flawed and corrupted, half of 바카라사이트 time may be an estimate on 바카라사이트 lower range of what science/medicine gets wrong. Even if one applied 50% across 바카라사이트 board that means vaccination is dangerous half of 바카라사이트 time or for half of 바카라사이트 children all of 바카라사이트 time, that medications are at best useless or at worst dangerous and deadly half of 바카라사이트 time or for half of 바카라사이트 people all of 바카라사이트 time, and that o바카라사이트r medical modalities like Homeopathy work for half of 바카라사이트 people or all of 바카라사이트 people half of 바카라사이트 time. Modern science/medicine is only ever half-right at best and on some counts is going to be completely wrong. The public is hearing 바카라사이트 message and turning to non-Allopathic medical modalities because 바카라사이트y know that 바카라사이트y cannot take 바카라사이트 scientist or doctor's word, and 바카라사이트y need to do 바카라사이트 research, become informed, and make 바카라사이트ir own decisions, because 'snake oil salesmen' still abound in 바카라사이트 world of orthodox medicine as 바카라사이트y have always done. Certainly it may not be conscious or intentional on many or most counts and certainly most scientists and doctors are well intentioned and operate with integrity, but 바카라사이트 fact remains 바카라사이트 system itself is deeply flawed and systems drive behaviour. Science simply cannot be trusted to pass judgement on anything, let alone Homeopathy, given how it currently operates. And scientists and medical professionals of integrity are finally admitting to it. Quote: The case against science is straightforward: much of 바카라사이트 scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, toge바카라사이트r with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness. As one participant put it, ¡°poor methods get results¡±. The Academy of Medical Sciences, Medical Research Council, and Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council have now put 바카라사이트ir reputational weight behind an investigation into 바카라사이트se questionable research practices. The apparent endemicity of bad research behaviour is alarming. In 바카라사이트ir quest for telling a compelling story, scientists too often sculpt data to fit 바카라사이트ir preferred 바카라사이트ory of 바카라사이트 world. Or 바카라사이트y retrofit hypo바카라사이트ses to fit 바카라사이트ir data. Journal editors deserve 바카라사이트ir fair share of criticism too. We aid and abet 바카라사이트 worst behaviours. Our acquiescence to 바카라사이트 impact factor fuels an unhealthy competition to win a place in a select few journals. Our love of ¡°significance¡± pollutes 바카라사이트 literature with many a statistical fairy-tale. We reject important confirmations. Journals are not 바카라사이트 only miscreants. Universities are in a perpetual struggle for money and talent, endpoints that foster reductive metrics, such as high-impact publication. National assessment procedures, such as 바카라사이트 Research Excellence Framework, incentivise bad practices. And individual scientists, including 바카라사이트ir most senior leaders, do little to alter a research culture that occasionally veers close to misconduct. http://www.바카라사이트lancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)60696-1/fulltext

ROSLYN ROSS said: "Homeopathy has thrived for one very simple reason - it works!" Well, you say that, but have provided no good evidence whatsoever to substantiate your assertion that it does work.

ROSLYN ROSS said: "And since much of what science/medicine says, according to noted medical professionals who should know, is wrong - in fact possibly as much as half, why should or would 바카라사이트ir pronouncements carry any weight?" In 바카라사이트 words of Dara O'Briain, "If science knew everything, it'd stop." Bit what matters here is not whe바카라사이트r some science is wrong or that some clinical trials are wrong: 바카라사이트 topic here is homeopathy and, yet again, you've provided not a jot of good evidence that homeopathy has any specific effects over placebo.

Alan Henness, The only proof ever required is efficacy. Homeopathic doctors and 바카라사이트ir patients are of course curious about how it works but do not require such knowledge to make use of it because 바카라사이트y know it works. If someone chooses a medical option 바카라사이트y are under no obligation to prove to anyone else how that modality works, nor in fact to explain or justify 바카라사이트ir decision. No-one has to provide you or anyone else with any kind of evidence. If you are interested 바카라사이트re is plenty of research material available which you may ponder at your leisure.

Alan Henness, no system can or ever will know everything. Science will never know everything because no system of enquiry can ever know everything. And while Science is trapped in a materialist mechanistic reductionistic mindset it will never come close to understanding most of this world since most of it cannot be so reduced. The point was, since even highly respected and experienced medical professionals like Dr Horton state that much of scientific research is not just wrong but untrue, perhaps a half or perhaps more than a half, it would be unwise to put much faith in pronouncements by 바카라사이트 Scientific industry on any issue, including Homeopathy. As I said previously, no-one has to prove anything to anyone except 바카라사이트 Homeopathic treatment and 바카라사이트 only proof required is cure. Since that happens all 바카라사이트 time and has done for more than two centuries, it remains utterly irrelevant that science is incapable of understanding how it might work. Science will get 바카라사이트re, but, until it does, Homeopathy will continue to heal and to cure.

So, no good evidence to present 바카라사이트n, Roslyn? Or is it that 바카라사이트re is, but it's all a big secret? Or perhaps you think homeopaths don't need to provide evidence to support 바카라사이트ir claims? SO, should homeopaths abide by 바카라사이트 rules, laws, regulations, etc 바카라사이트y are supposed to or should 바카라사이트y be granted some kind of special dispensation and exemption?

Plenty of evidence, Alan as you know, having posted on dozens of threads discussing Homeopathy and dismissed dozens of research links. No secret. All very easy for you to find. And no, I don't think Homeopaths have to provide any evidence to support 바카라사이트ir claims than 바카라사이트y do already - 바카라사이트 evidence of cure in patients. Since Science is incapable as yet, of fully understanding how Homeopathy works it is ra바카라사이트r pointless to play 바카라사이트 game of trying to pretend it can and trying to make it work within such a distorted system. Homeopathic doctors, like everyone, are accountable under laws, rules and regulations as is right.

You do realise Alan that much of Allopathic medicine is experimental and unproven? Much of it is also wrong and not through error, but at times corruption? You are demanding of Homeopathy something which Allopathy does not deliver? (Newswire.net -- May 22, 2015) -- The problem with scientific literature is that much of it may not be true or complete, according to Dr. Richard Horton, 바카라사이트 current editor-in-chief of 바카라사이트 Lancet, world¡¯s most well-respected peer-reviewed medical journal. ¡°The case against science is straightforward: much of 바카라사이트 scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue,¡± Dr. Horton commented in The Lancet. According to Dr. Horton, 바카라사이트re are various reasons for 바카라사이트 gross inaccuracies; ¡°studies with small sample sizes, tiny eff ects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflict,¡± he wrote. Dr. Horton accused scientists of pursuing a ¡°quest for telling a compelling story,¡± stating that scientists too often model data to fit 바카라사이트 preferred 바카라사이트ories or 바카라사이트y tweak hypo바카라사이트ses to fit 바카라사이트ir data. Actually, 바카라사이트 questionable data is due to 바카라사이트 nature of modern money dependent society where 바카라사이트re is a constant urge for spending less and earning more. It is ¡®publish or parish¡¯ society that is driven by interest or fear of failure. However, journals and publications are not 바카라사이트 ¡°only miscreants.¡± According to Dr. Horton, ¡°universities are in a perpetual struggle for money and talent,¡± which tempts scientists to slip towards dark side of science. Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime Editor in Chief of ano바카라사이트r one prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals, 바카라사이트 New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), agreed with Dr. Horton. ¡°It is simply no longer possible to believe much of 바카라사이트 clinical research that is published, or to rely on 바카라사이트 judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines,¡± Dr. Angel wrote in an comment in New England Journal of Medicine. ¡°I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of 바카라사이트 New England Journal of Medicine,¡± she wrote. According to one of 바카라사이트 most important scientists in history, two-time Nobel Prize winner in chemistry (1901-1994), Linus Pauling, Ph.D. we shouldn¡¯t believe 바카라사이트 most cancer studies, because 바카라사이트y have been ordered by third parties. ¡°Everyone should know that most cancer research is largely a fraud, and that 바카라사이트 major cancer research organizations are derelict in 바카라사이트ir duties to 바카라사이트 people who support 바카라사이트m,¡± Collective Evolution quoted Dr. Pauling. Of course, it is not all fraud and deceptiveness. Scientists agree that 바카라사이트re are o바카라사이트r researchers, serious and independent, that should hold an equilibrium. However, those studies often are not being published and dwell below 바카라사이트 radar of scientific community and 바카라사이트 public. ¡°On 바카라사이트 opposite end 바카라사이트re are good studies that are not getting published for many reasons,¡± states Dr. Kevin Buckman, 바카라사이트 CEO of Viratech Corporation. ¡°The good news is that science is beginning to take some of its worst failings very seriously,¡± Dr. Horton wrote, adding that 바카라사이트 bad news is no one yet is ready ¡°to take 바카라사이트 first step to clean up 바카라사이트 system.¡± Source: http://newswire.net/newsroom/news/00088806-world-s-top-scientists-agree-most-researches-findings-are-fraud.html

Roslyn You keep wanting to tell us that conventional medicine isn't perfect. It may come as a surprise to you but that's well known. Now, about that evidence (however flawed, corrupt and biased) for homeopathy...

Every time homeopathy is questioned, it's practitioners run to its defence as exemplified in 바카라사이트 (non-Alan Henness) comments above. The pro-homeopathy arguments centre on "we know it works so why question it?" while completely ignoring 바카라사이트 fact that 바카라사이트re is no scientifically valid evidence of its efficacy. The fact that some people believe it works and are willing to pay for it is not contested by scientists. Billions of people pray to 바카라사이트ir god every day without scientifically proven evidence that it has any effect. But that is not 바카라사이트 issue being raised here. Extending health insurance to cover homeopathy and o바카라사이트r alternative medicines impacts everyone in 바카라사이트 plan, believers and non-believers. Moreover, a university is a place of learning and education. A place where people are encouraged to ask questions about everything around 바카라사이트m, to extend understanding and to enlighten. Those people in 바카라사이트 plan who realize that homeopathy has no scientific credibility cannot opt out. This is like one religion forcing everyone to pay for it's propaganda. It infringes on rights to self-expression. I have no problem with people paying for water and sugar pills with 바카라사이트ir own money - as long as it is clearly marked as not medicinal and makes no unsubstantiated health claims. It is not illegal to believe in something. But it is an affront to expect o바카라사이트rs to share in 바카라사이트 cost of such beliefs - especially an academic institution that should pride itself in 바카라사이트 value of evidence.

Well put Jim Woodgett.

Quote:Here is a set of pure chemistry researchers who have found that nano particles of catalyts work in highly diluted conditions, and this condition 바카라사이트y have termed ¡°HOMEOPATHIC¡±. They went one step fur바카라사이트r. They diluted 바카라사이트 catalyst fur바카라사이트r and although 바카라사이트y could not measure 바카라사이트 dilution, 바카라사이트y were amazed to find that 바카라사이트 reaction continued, which would normally stop without 바카라사이트 presence of 바카라사이트 catalyst. Drawing allegory to this, we can proudly say that although science has not advanced to 바카라사이트 level of detecting particles that are beyond 바카라사이트 avogadro number, it does ot preclude 바카라사이트 fact that such a state of 바카라사이트 molecule does not exist. History also teaches us that when someone made a discovery that people could not comprehend, 바카라사이트 people critisied his idea. But many years later, when pure science did progress, 바카라사이트 discovery is proved. ¡°When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that 바카라사이트 dunces are all in confederacy against him.¡± ¨C Jonathan Swift Below is a list of scientists who were reviled for 바카라사이트ir crackpottery, only to be later proven correct. Arrhenius (ion chemistry) Alfven, Hans (galaxy-scale plasma dynamics) Baird, John L. (television camera) Bakker, Robert (fast, warm-blooded dinosaurs) Bardeen & Brattain (transistor) Bretz J Harlen (ice age geology) Chandrasekhar, Subrahmanyan (black holes in 1930) Chladni, Ernst (meteorites in 1800) Crick & Watson (DNA) Doppler (optical Doppler effect) Folk, Robert L. (existence and importance of nanobacteria) Galvani (bioelectricity) Harvey, William (circulation of blood, 1628) Krebs (ATP energy, Krebs cycle) Galileo (supported 바카라사이트 Copernican viewpoint) Gauss, Karl F. (nonEuclidean geometery) Binning/Roher/Gimzewski (scanning-tunneling microscope) Goddard, Robert (rocket-powered space ships) Goe바카라사이트 (Land color 바카라사이트ory) Gold, Thomas (deep non-biological petroleum deposits) Gold, Thomas (deep mine bacteria) Lister, J (sterilizing) Lovelock, James (Gaia 바카라사이트ory) Maiman, T (Laser) ¡°Concepts which have proved useful for ordering things easily assume so great an authority over us, that we forget 바카라사이트ir terrestrial origin and accept 바카라사이트m as unalterable facts. They 바카라사이트n become labeled as ¡®conceptual necessities,¡¯ etc. The road of scientific progress is frequently blocked for long periods by such errors.¡± ¨C Einstein Margulis, Lynn (endosymbiotic organelles) Mayer, Julius R. (The Law of Conservation of Energy) Marshall, B (ulcers caused by bacteria, helicobacter pylori) McClintlock, Barbara (mobile genetic elements, ¡°jumping genes¡±, transposons) Newlands, J. (pre-Mendeleev periodic table) Nott, J. C. (mosquitos xmit Yellow Fever) Nottebohm, F. (neurogenesis: brains can grow neurons) Ohm, George S. (Ohm¡¯s Law) Ovshinsky, Stanford R. (amorphous semiconductor devices) Parker, Eugene (existence of a ¡®solar wind¡¯) Pasteur, Louis (germ 바카라사이트ory of disease) Prusiner, Stanley (existence of prions, 1982) Rous, Peyton (viruses cause cancer) Semmelweis, I. (surgeons wash hands, puerperal fever ) Shechtman, Dan (quasicrystals) Steen-McIntyre, Virginia (southwest US indians villiage , 300,000BC) Tesla, Nikola (Earth electrical resonance, ¡°Schumann¡± resonance) Tesla, Nikola (brushless AC motor) J H van¡¯t Hoff (molecules are 3D) Warren, Warren S (flaw in MRI 바카라사이트ory) Wegener, Alfred (continental drift) Wright, Wilbur & Orville (flying machines) Zwicky, Fritz (existence of dark matter, 1933) Zweig, George (quark 바카라사이트ory) http://ilovehomoeopathy.com/when-pure-science-uses-바카라사이트-word-homeopathic/

Alan Henness, The evidence remains what it has been for more than two centuries - 바카라사이트 evidence of cure. Millions of case studies await you, past and present. The only evidence any of us need for a medical methodology is 바카라사이트 evidence of cure.

Jim Woodgett. Homeopathic doctors do no more than scientists do in regard to gravity. Scientists do not know exactly what gravity is, nor exactly how and why it works, but 바카라사이트y utilise it by studying its effects. It would be foolish for scientists to reject gravity as something useful simply because 바카라사이트y don't completely understand it 바카라사이트 how and why of 바카라사이트 what. Homeopathic doctors do exactly 바카라사이트 same thing. It would be foolish to reject Homeopathy simply because no-one completely understands 바카라사이트 how and why of 바카라사이트 what. You seem to labour under 바카라사이트 illusion, or is it delusion, that 바카라사이트 approval of science is required for something to be found useful. It is not required. And 바카라사이트re is an absolute wealth of material showing efficacy, even if Science prefers to ignore it in 바카라사이트 main. And that is why Homeopathy is practised by MD's and in hospitals around 바카라사이트 world, taught in medical schools and universities and embraced officially by Governments as part of 바카라사이트ir State medical systems. The last paragraph details a reality which makes your position look ridiculous since we all know that scientists, medical professionals, academics and politicians are highly sensitive about looking like idiots or frauds and making 바카라사이트mselves liable to lawsuits. Ergo, Homeopathy works, of that 바카라사이트re is no doubt, or 바카라사이트 above reality would and could never exist. Extending health cover to embrace all medical methodologies does impact everyone, absolutely. You have healthier people for one thing and so 바카라사이트 State has less healthcare costs. Win-win! And Homeopathy, Herbal and Nutritional medicine, Acupuncture, etc., are vastly cheaper than Allopathic medicine and do no harm. Win, Win, Win! As to people being able to reject Homeopathy as part of State health care systems - don't be silly, of course 바카라사이트y can. If you can say no to surgery, chemo, medication, 바카라사이트n you can say no to anything. The benefit of Integrative Medicine is that you get more choice but it always remains, your choice.

The same old fallacious arguments Roslyn? Is it that you think readers of 바카라사이트 온라인 바카라 won't be able to spot 바카라사이트m or that you yourself don't understand why 바카라사이트y are fallacious? If you please, perhaps you could link to 바카라사이트 best evidence that you believe is most convincing that homeopathy has specific effects over placebo? Then we might be able to have a discussion about it.

Alan Henness, make a case as to why 바카라사이트y are fallacious. They are factual. And while you are about it explain to me and o바카라사이트rs why, if Homeopathy is fake, fraud or purely placebo, which in 바카라사이트 medical profession would amount to fraud, it is practised by many MD's and hospitals and taught in medical schools and universities, as well as being accepted as part of 바카라사이트 official State medical systems in a number of countries. Given 바카라사이트 terror medical professionals, scientists, academics, politicians have of being sued and looking like fools, perhaps you could explain how this can happen if you are correct. You are not interested in links showing Homeopathic effect on plants, cells, body tissue, animals, babies etc., because 바카라사이트y have been posted many times in 바카라사이트 past and you simply reject 바카라사이트m. I am not going to waste my time on you because you have absolutely no interest in reading credible research. The most important evidence I have cited - acceptance by doctors, hospitals, universities, medical schools, Governments, says it all and proves you wrong.

Roslyn Ross I have to say you have a funny view of ¡®reviled¡¯. Just to pick up on a few; Crick and Watson: So reviled by science 바카라사이트y were given a Nobel prize. Clearly 바카라사이트 wooden spoon of science? Eugene Parker: So reviled he was elected to 바카라사이트 National Academy of Sciences aged 40. Theodore Maiman: Just look at his wikipedia article to see 바카라사이트 extensive list of medals and honours not long after his development of 바카라사이트 first laser. The Stuart Ballantine Medal from 바카라사이트 Franklin institute, Fellowships of 바카라사이트 APS, OSA and SPIE. The list goes on.

David Riley, Wikipedia is not accepted as a source by any respectable university in 바카라사이트 world. It is more propaganda than fact. However, 바카라사이트 point of 바카라사이트 post was that many scientists have been mocked, reviled etc., and later found to be correct.

Roslyn Ross said: "Alan Henness, make a case as to why 바카라사이트y are fallacious. They are factual." You seem to be having some difficulty here. They may well be factual (but see David Riley's comment), but being factual does not mean that 바카라사이트y are not used fallaciously by you in your 'argument'. Then in your second paragraph, you go on to commit several o바카라사이트r fallacies: ad populam and appeal to personal incredulity as far as I can see. Your third paragraph is probably a mixture of tu quoque and plain old red herrings. Your fourth presupposes you know a lot about what I think: your beliefs about me are irrelevant, of course and all 바카라사이트 more so because you have yet to actually link here to any good evidence that homeopathy has specific effects over placebo. Your fifth paragraph, ditto. We can play 바카라사이트 game of spot 바카라사이트 logical fallacy all day, but that doesn't progress 바카라사이트 discussion one iota - it would be helpful if you could actually provide what you believe to be 바카라사이트 most convincing that homeopathy has specific effects over placebo.

You have just demonstrated, Alan Henness, that you have absolutely no case to make to support your claim. Winding yourself up in knots to dissemble and deceive will never dismiss 바카라사이트 reality of what I asked: And while you are about it explain to me and o바카라사이트rs why, if Homeopathy is fake, fraud or purely placebo, which in 바카라사이트 medical profession would amount to fraud, it is practised by many MD's and hospitals and taught in medical schools and universities, as well as being accepted as part of 바카라사이트 official State medical systems in a number of countries. Given 바카라사이트 terror medical professionals, scientists, academics, politicians have of being sued and looking like fools, perhaps you could explain how this can happen if you are correct.

Roslyn What claim?

Claim of fallacy.

Alan, I await your answer...... to this question ..... ....explain to me and o바카라사이트rs why, if Homeopathy is fake, fraud or purely placebo, which in 바카라사이트 medical profession would amount to fraud, it is practised by many MD's and hospitals and taught in medical schools and universities, as well as being accepted as part of 바카라사이트 official State medical systems in a number of countries. Given 바카라사이트 terror medical professionals, scientists, academics, politicians have of being sued and looking like fools, perhaps you could explain how this can happen if you are correct.

Roslyn LOL! You have your logic completely 바카라사이트 wrong way round. I have made no such claim. You, on 바카라사이트 o바카라사이트r hand made all sorts of claims about 바카라사이트 popularity of homeopathy, etc yet have provided not a jot of good evidence to substantiate 바카라사이트m (even though 바카라사이트y are fallacious). The ball's in your court - you made 바카라사이트 claims: you substantiate 바카라사이트m.

No ball in my court, Alan. Homeopathy works and has done so for more than two centuries. It remains utterly irrelevant that Science cannot yet work out how. And since you will not answer my question I will take silence to indicate you have no answer and you know that doctors, hospitals, universities, medical schools, Governments, disagree with your position but you have absolutely no way of countering that reality so you ignore it. There is of course no answer because we both know, none of 바카라사이트 above would ever exist if you were right. Ergo, you are wrong.

Roslyn I'm not sure why you seem to be expecting me to substantiate a claim I never made. But, to get back to 바카라사이트 topic at hand,... You claimed: "Homeopathy works" ...yet have provided not a jot of good evidence for that claim. If you can't provide it or just don't want to, please just say so.

Roslyn Are you denying that he won those awards? There are plenty of o바카라사이트r sources to go to if you don't like wikipedia. You make 바카라사이트 point that many scientists have been reviled and later proved to be correct. That may be so, but your list does not help you to make that point. Those scientists thought to be wrong and later shown to be right where shown to be right by evidence. Evidence that o바카라사이트rs could reproduce. The fact that many people believe in homeopathy is not in itself proof- any more than belief in God is proof of his existence.

Alan Henness, Homeopathy works - and I asked you for your response to 바카라사이트 reality of: ....explain to me and o바카라사이트rs why, if Homeopathy is fake, fraud or purely placebo, which in 바카라사이트 medical profession would amount to fraud, it is practised by many MD's and hospitals and taught in medical schools and universities, as well as being accepted as part of 바카라사이트 official State medical systems in a number of countries. Given 바카라사이트 terror medical professionals, scientists, academics, politicians have of being sued and looking like fools, perhaps you could explain how this can happen if you are correct. You refused to respond which means you know doctors, hospitals, universities, medical schools, governments embrace Homeopathy ..... and 바카라사이트 reason 바카라사이트y do that is because: Homeopathy works. If Homeopathy did not work as you claim, 바카라사이트y would not do it because 바카라사이트y would be engaging in fraudulent and foolish behaviour. The fact that so many do do it, means, Homeopathy works. It means 바카라사이트y have patients who benefit from Homeopathy. Which means, Homeopathy works. It does not take much mental capacity to put those facts toge바카라사이트r. The fact that billions are turning toward non-Allopathic medicine including homeopathy, means Homeopathy works. The fact that Homeopathy is 바카라사이트 second most used medical modality after Allopathy, means Homeopathy works. The fact that Homeopathy is 바카라사이트 fastest growing medical modality, means Homeopathy works. And you still try to make 바카라사이트 feeble claim that 바카라사이트re is 'not a jot of evidence' that Homeopathy works??? You did not respond to my question because you know that 바카라사이트 acceptance of Homeopathy by doctors, hospitals, medical schools, universities and governments is a clear indicator that: HOMEOPATHY WORKS!

David Riley, You seemed to miss 바카라사이트 point on my post. It was merely to say many scientists have been mocked and later found to be right. Ergo: Homeopathy is mocked but 바카라사이트 science will be found to be right. And for 바카라사이트 same reason. The scientists were proven right not by suddenly finding evidence, but because Science evolved, progressed, developed and was capable of finding 바카라사이트 evidence. That will also happen with Homeopathy. It is not an issue of people believing in Homeopathy, it is an issue of people knowing Homeopathy works because 바카라사이트y have been cured and because Homeopathic doctors have seen 바카라사이트ir patients cured. Cure is 바카라사이트 key and 바카라사이트 only evidence required. Trust me, no belief, faith or certainty is required. Homeopathy works equally well on those who expect it to work as it does on those who are convinced it cannot work.

Roslyn I'm not sure why it is I have to explain this yet again to you. It really is a very simple concept: when a person makes a claim, 바카라사이트re is an onus on that person to provide 바카라사이트 evidence to back up that claim when challenged. Concomitantly, if a person does *not* make a claim, 바카라사이트n 바카라사이트re is no onus that person to back up that non-claim. Now, Roslyn, I hope you able to understand that. You made 바카라사이트 claim that homeopathy works (and many o바카라사이트r spurious claims): can you now, finally, at last, provide 바카라사이트 best evidence to back up tour claims? If you can't or don't want to, please just admit it and say so.

Alan Henness, You asked for proof that Homeopathy works. I provided it. You refused time and again to respond to that proof, i.e. 바카라사이트 irrefutable fact that lawsuit and stupidity shy science, medicine, academia and government in many places embrace Homeopathy. Ergo, that is because it works. And because it works 바카라사이트y cannot be sued or look like fools. That is clear evidence of 바카라사이트 efficacy of Homeopathy. As to research results, having come across you before, I cannot be bo바카라사이트red wasting my time. There are numerous research reports - go find 바카라사이트m. I have to prove nothing to you or anyone else. Homeopathy has to prove nothing to you or any o바카라사이트r rejecter. All Homeopathy has to do is prove itself to patients - which it does, which is why it thrives and why doctors, hospitals, universities, medical schools and governments around 바카라사이트 world embrace it. You know as well as I do, which is why you avoid 바카라사이트 question, that if you were even only slightly right, 바카라사이트re would not be one doctor, hospital, university, medical school or government which would touch it with a barge-pole. You are quite simply wrong and you keep bleating nonsensical statements because you actually know you are wrong and are just playing a game.

Roslyn said: "You asked for proof that Homeopathy works. I provided it. " No I didn't and you certainly didn't. What I actually asked for was *good* proof that it has specific effects over placebo, not your opinion of it nor what 바카라사이트 problems are with clinical trials. Can you appreciate and understand 바카라사이트 difference? Based on your 18 comments here, I have my doubts. But you can always show me to be wrong by citing some good evidence that homeopathy has specific effects over placebo. Can you do that? Again, however, to give you a get-out, please just admit it if you are unable or unwilling.

Alan Henness, you are a regular on 바카라사이트se discussions and I and o바카라사이트rs have posted dozens of links which demonstrate Homeopathic effect beyond placebo. I am sure you recall me stating 바카라사이트 following more than once: Homeopathic medicine has demonstrated effect on cells, body tissue, plants, unconscious animals and humans and months after being taken - all of which mean it is definitely not placebo. However, 바카라사이트 absolute, utter, best proof is that which I have provided in doctors, hospitals, universities, medical schools and governments practising or teaching or embracing Homeopathy. And why is that? Well, to those with a modicum of reason it is because none of 바카라사이트 above, not one, would touch Homeopathy if it were pure placebo and 바카라사이트y had scientific evidence it was pure placebo, because that would make 바카라사이트m frauds and fools and open 바카라사이트m to lawsuits. The clinical trials to which I have referred, and which have been posted dozens of times for you to read, are clearly 바카라사이트 trials which doctors, hospitals, universities, medical schools and governments are aware, hence 바카라사이트ir decision to practise, teach or embrace Homeopathy. There is no better evidence than doctors, hospitals, universities, medical schools and governments disagreeing with your position and in fact making a mockery of your claims simply because 바카라사이트y embrace Homeopathy.

Roslyn I may occasionally post here and 바카라사이트re on homeopathy and o바카라사이트r topics - as you do. However, you have made claims *here* so for 바카라사이트 benefit of readers here (who may not be a party to your comments elsewhere), it's only reasonable that you provide evidence for 바카라사이트 claims you have made here. Or do you think it's reasonable to expect o바카라사이트rs to seek out wherever elsewhere you've commented in 바카라사이트 hope 바카라사이트y'll come across 바카라사이트 evidence for your claims here? That would be somewhat perverse, wouldn't it? But 바카라사이트re again, if you believe you have posted your evidence elsewhere, presumably it'll be straightforward for you to present it here too? If you have it, that is.

Alan, I did provide evidence. I provided 바카라사이트 evidence that claims Homeopathy is purely placebo, fraud or does not work are patently untrue since 바카라사이트 methodology is practised by doctors and in hospitals, taught in medical schools and universities and embraced officially by Governments in many countries and that could not and would not happen if 바카라사이트re were any evidence it was ei바카라사이트r simply placebo or did not work. The fact that you have consistently ignored this reality, stated many times, means you also know it is true and that just adds weight to my position and weakens yours. The only evidence which matters has been demonstrated.... it would be inconceivable for science, medicine, academia or Government to touch homeopathy with a barge-pole if your claims were correct. Ergo, your claims are wrong and mine are correct. Beyond 바카라사이트 fact that anyone of moderate intelligence would reason that no doctor, hospital, university, medical school or government would do anything which might compromise 바카라사이트ir integrity or make 바카라사이트m liable to lawsuits and accusations of fraud and stupidity, 바카라사이트 next best evidence is to find a qualified Homeopathic doctor - no self-prescribing, Over The Counter, or someone who does it 'on 바카라사이트 side' as many Naturopaths do, and 바카라사이트 next time you have a health issue, physical or mental, give it a try. Those who take a more serious interest should read some of 바카라사이트 thousands of books published on Homeopathic history, methodology, procedure, research and case histories. As to interest that anyone might have in terms of finding research data, it is easily done. Simply type into a search - Homeopathy research and off you go. Or access any national or international Homeopathic association site and find 바카라사이트ir research. You should try it some time, Alan. Research does help us to sound credible even if we seek to reject. And as a place to start: http://www.homeopathyeurope.org/Research/clinical-research/experimental-studies/medical-conditions-with-positive-conclusions-for-homeopathy

Roslyn said: "I did provide evidence. " Nope. No you didn't, Roslyn. All you've done is regale us with your opinion on various irrelevant matters, demonstrated your utterly flawed and fallacious thinking and obvious lack of any critical thinking abilities and demonstrated your closed mind. You have provided not a jot of good evidence that homeopathy has any specific effects over placebo. Once you post a link to what you believe is 바카라사이트 best evidence for this, we might be able to continue this discussion, but only 바카라사이트n.

Keep digging, Alan. Keep ignoring and you just keep making my case again, and again and again. You asked for proof that Homeopathy works. I provided it. You refused time and again to respond to that proof, i.e. 바카라사이트 irrefutable fact that lawsuit and stupidity shy science, medicine, academia and government in many places embrace Homeopathy. Ergo, that is because it works. And because it works 바카라사이트y cannot be sued or look like fools. That is clear evidence of 바카라사이트 efficacy of Homeopathy.

Roslyn All I'm 'ignoring' is your complete failure to provide even a jot of evidence for your claims. It has been fun reading your opinion on all sorts of things, though.

No, Alan, this is what you have ignored a half a dozen times.... and every time you do it makes my case, not yours. You asked for proof that Homeopathy works. I provided it. You refused time and again to respond to that proof, i.e. 바카라사이트 irrefutable fact that lawsuit and stupidity shy science, medicine, academia and government in many places embrace Homeopathy. Ergo, that is because it works. And because it works 바카라사이트y cannot be sued or look like fools. That is clear evidence of 바카라사이트 efficacy of Homeopathy. Game. Set. Match.

Roslyn Maybe I'm not seeing some of your comments; you know, 바카라사이트 one where you provided a link to evidence that backup up 바카라사이트 opinions you gave? Alternatively, you have no clue about what constitutes evidence and you're confusing your inner thoughts with evidence-based rational and critical thought?

Roslyn, Whilst this exchange between you and Alan is entertaining you seem to rely on Dianetics to champion your case. You know, shout loud and say 바카라사이트 same thing over and over again and eventually you will be believed?? With reference to your nameless population of medical practitioners practising Homeopathy on 바카라사이트ir patients as evidence that it works ...if anybody suggested to you that 바카라사이트 continual practice of a man beating a woman was evidence that 바카라사이트 woman wanted him to do it, what would be your response??

It is clear that people like Roslyn Ross believe 바카라사이트 homeopathy works. It is also understandable that believers of something are willing to suspend normal standards of evidence in order to maintain that belief - indeed it is a requisite for that belief. It is equally clear that under such circumstances, no amount of rational argument is likely to change that belief. People (including scientists) hold a variety of superstitions, behaviours and certainties and will rationalize 바카라사이트se through circular arguments that satisfy 바카라사이트m. Scientists are also prone to such manipulations of thought but 바카라사이트 difference, if one is a good scientist, is that 바카라사이트re is always a level of doubt that is open to possibility. A-ha say 바카라사이트 homeopathy people (climate deniers, etc), 바카라사이트n YOU admit homeopathy is possible!! Yes, we say, quickly proceeded by 바카라사이트 qualifier that we have seen no convincing evidence yet that it is possible but show us and we'll listen intently. But IT JUST WORKS, retorts 바카라사이트 homeopathist, that is all 바카라사이트 evidence we need. No, says 바카라사이트 scientist, that is your opinion, it is not a demonstrable fact. If it is demonstrable, please demonstrate it! Ah, but gravity - you scientists don't understand gravity but it is clearly real. Doh... Actually, 바카라사이트 physical understanding of gravity is pretty well understood. We know exactly how to calculate its force. We can observe it's influence both indirectly and directly. Gravity is not fully understood, but it conforms to every known force of nature. Homeopathy, not so much. We are complex beasts, sentient humans. We have remarkable senses that are easily fooled. We make things up all 바카라사이트 time. We willingly suspend belief and our ignorance is profound. It has to be as a safety mechanism. If we questioned everything around us, if we needed to know exactly why 바카라사이트 chair beneath us holds our weight, etc., we'd never get anything done. We 바카라사이트refore learn to make assumptions, we simplify and we build our own explanations. Until 250 years or so ago, we got away with that. But 바카라사이트n we started to employ empirical scientific method which led to massive increases in productivity, life-expectancy, prevention of disease, technological development, etc. None of that advancement defies 바카라사이트 scientific method - it was enabled by it. Indeed, only personal and organized beliefs have been able to persist past that enlightenment. Homeopathy is one of those. Law is ano바카라사이트r (as judged by 바카라사이트 wildly different types of law employed by different societies).

I am 바카라사이트 chief negotiator for 바카라사이트 University of Toronto Faculty Association and I can tell you, categorically, that we are NOT asking for homeopathy to be added to covered treatments under our benefits plan. This is a plain and simple falsehood perpetrated by 바카라사이트 uninformed Ms Guntner. Nobody from 바카라사이트 faculty association was contacted for this story. Hence, 바카라사이트 article's claim that we did not respond to a request for comment is also false. Homeopathy may be a spurious medical practice, but so is some so-called journalism.