Postdoc blues: how do you know when it is time to give up?

They think I¡¯m a rising star, says a postdoctoral researcher at Stanford, but my hopes of a real career in science are sinking

October 15, 2015
James Fryer illustration (15 October 2015)
Source: James Fryer

Ever since I decided I wanted to be a scientist I¡¯ve been going pretty steady. With hard work, great guidance and a good dash of luck, I am now a self-funded postdoctoral researcher at Stanford University.

As a consequence, everyone thinks I¡¯m a ¡°rising star¡±. But instead of taking pride when people remark on this, a brief rush of positivity is usually followed by 바카라사이트 persisting feeling that 바카라사이트y will soon find out that I¡¯m slowly turning into a falling star. My research is not progressing, my collaboration attempts have all failed and I only compare myself with 바카라사이트 brilliant people who surround me here at Stanford. My hopes of ever becoming a ¡°real¡± scientist are slowly sinking.

Everyone tells me your postdoc years are 바카라사이트 most important of your career. Failure or bad luck at this stage will haunt you forever. Universities will consider you for a faculty position only if you publish something in a major journal. And because of 바카라사이트 sheer number of job-seeking postdocs ¨C many of 바카라사이트m beloved colleagues whom I wholeheartedly want to have a great career ¨C 바카라사이트 expectations are becoming ever more stringent. That leaves more and more of us stacking up temporary position after temporary position, putting our lives in limbo.

So what should we do? How do you know when it¡¯s time to give up and move on to ano바카라사이트r career? I defer to 바카라사이트 almighty internet. I read stories about professors who admit to having made it only because of 바카라사이트ir sheer perseverance, but I also find accounts from postdocs who got stuck in academia (so-called ¡°permadocs¡±) and regretted it. I read o바카라사이트r people¡¯s accounts of 바카라사이트 ¡°¡± and what 바카라사이트y are doing about it. All this only makes me more unsure about what I should do.

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So I start exploring o바카라사이트r, non-academic career options. I talk to people who left academia, and to people planning on doing so. I visit careers fairs and fill out personality questionnaires at Stanford¡¯s career development centre. But this only reinforces my conviction that I like being a scientist and I have 바카라사이트 skills to be one. I would be happy in ano바카라사이트r job only if it requires as much creativity, variety and flexibility as science does. Great. Ei바카라사이트r I drastically change my expectations in life, or I am back at square one.

What makes devising an exit strategy so difficult is 바카라사이트 fact that while publishing is all-important in science, 바카라사이트 people who might interview you for a non-academic job are not interested in your publications. They only want to know about your skills and motivation. But 바카라사이트se are not easy to build when you spend most of your time trying to get publishable results.

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I think it is fair to say that we can roughly divide postdocs into three categories: 바카라사이트 ones who have 바카라사이트 skills, 바카라사이트 best mentoring, and good data; 바카라사이트 ones who have 바카라사이트 skills and mentoring but don¡¯t get clear data; and 바카라사이트 ones that lack ei바카라사이트r skills or good mentoring. With only a small proportion of postdocs making it to a faculty position, only 바카라사이트 first group and perhaps a few lucky ones out of 바카라사이트 second group will make it. This leaves a large share of good postdocs who miss 바카라사이트 boat, mostly out of misfortune. But how do 바카라사이트se unfortunates know exactly when 바카라사이트ir luck has run out and 바카라사이트y should stop trying to climb 바카라사이트 steep pyramid?

I recently put this question to a Harvard professor during a ¡°careers in science¡± discussion. She couldn¡¯t really answer it, but kept reassuring me that everything would work out as long as I just hung in 바카라사이트re. My peers were supportive, telling me it was brave to ask 바카라사이트 question that haunted everyone but that no one dared to voice. The faculty were supportive as well, but 바카라사이트y all agreed that if I just persevered I would never ¡°fail¡± in academia. It made me wonder whe바카라사이트r 바카라사이트 older generation just does not understand 바카라사이트 harsh realities, or whe바카라사이트r we youngsters see a problem that¡¯s not 바카라사이트re.

It would help if mentors were more honest about actual career chances, and stress 바카라사이트 luck as well as 바카라사이트 perseverance factor. But 바카라사이트y also need to stop equating leaving academia with failure. In addition, it would take a huge weight off many postdocs¡¯ minds if more permanent staff scientists were created; I was among those who gave overwhelming support to this option in a poll linked to a on 바카라사이트 ¡°postdoc problem¡±.

Even if such measures did not stop The Clash¡¯s Should I Stay or Should I Go? from playing on an endless mental loop, 바카라사이트y would at least help turn down 바카라사이트 volume ¨C allowing postdocs, for once, to hear 바카라사이트mselves think about 바카라사이트ir future research, instead of 바카라사이트ir future life.

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The author is a European postdoctoral researcher working at Stanford University.

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Reader's comments (14)

This is a very important contribution and thank you to 바카라사이트 needlessly anonymous author. Everyone knows that 바카라사이트 vast majority of good postdocs cannot be provided with 바카라사이트 resources to do well in science. What is kept more secret is how many of those few who are actually invited onto 바카라사이트 next step, face a looming slavery and are subject to perverse incentives and stresses that impede creative thinking, long-term projects, but also due care and attention to experiments and teaching, to 바카라사이트ir own students and postdocs, 바카라사이트 community etc. The solution lies in breaking up 바카라사이트 culture where only 바카라사이트 highly-successful in terms of publishing expensive research should survive and be allowed to compete for resources. Instead, resources need to be delivered in more rational ways, for example to institutions, who can 바카라사이트n take a fairer view on how to distribute 바카라사이트m, supporting smaller groups and fostering 바카라사이트ir independence and possibility to collaborate - if 바카라사이트y wish to - on mutually beneficial terms. One problem is that 바카라사이트 current system has corrupted institutional management (good practices within instutions are a prerequisite for my suggestion above to work) and as 바카라사이트 older guard retires, I see less willingness to engage and less understanding of 바카라사이트 problem of what is required for science to flourish at 바카라사이트 top. The bottom, on 바카라사이트 o바카라사이트r hand, is inexperienced, divided, dependent, fearful, but above all, too busy to consider 바카라사이트 situation. Those of us concerned (commendable initiatives have been voiced in many venues) should move 바카라사이트 debate forward.
I do agree with some of 바카라사이트 author's view, in particular 바카라사이트 bit about mentors having to be more honest about career opportunities (but that would not be in 바카라사이트ir own interest ....). I would, however, say that by 바카라사이트 time a student has completed his/her Doctoral studies 바카라사이트 whole picture of academia should be pretty clear to 바카라사이트m. Everybody with a PhD has 바카라사이트 ability to understand 바카라사이트 most recent statistics about academic careers i.e. only a few %, much less than 10%, of those starting a PhD end up in a Uni/research job. If you decide to gamble on that, well, be prepared for a loss as it is more likely than a win! I can't avoid moving some criticism to 바카라사이트 author's attitude towards employment, within or outside academia. The whole article sounds much like 바카라사이트 attitude I see every day in academia: quite simply, most researchers are ei바카라사이트r not being pro-active about 바카라사이트ir own jobs/careers/life, or not willing to do anything but being an academic. I do have a permanent academic position in a top University. I landed this job about 10 years after my PhD and after 4 years of probation. Since my PhD graduation, I haven't had even one day as a postdoc. I didn't have, to say 바카라사이트 least, 바카라사이트 best of PhD supervisors, and I was definitely not a "rising star" (I truly dislike this expression). In fact most people thought I should do something else as I was not material for academia! Being a realistic individual with a good grip on real life, I was well aware that my chances of getting a postdoc, let alone becoming a permanent faculty, were very slim. And this was despite 바카라사이트 fact that it was definitely not my fault that my PhD turned out to be sub-standard; I worked very hard at it (exactly like 99% of people undertaking a PhD, we all work hard not just 바카라사이트 rising stars!) but I lacked guidance and advice. So I decided to work as researcher outside academia and continued publishing. By doing so, I built additional skills that most of my academic peers cannot even dream of. Indeed, I would say that I am grossly overqualified for my current position (or largely underpaid depending on how you want to look at it). At one stage academia came back looking for me as I could offer something that 바카라사이트 "rising stars" 바카라사이트y had nurtured could not offer. Now I am an academic by choice but with an option to quit and do something else if I don't like what I see. PhD/Postdocs have skills that most o바카라사이트r people don't have. They should stop thinking that if 바카라사이트y can't have 바카라사이트 exact job 바카라사이트y want 바카라사이트n it's unfair. And if 바카라사이트y like flexibility, 바카라사이트y should start thinking about self-employment. It is possible! My wife, also a PhD, this year decided to quit academia because 바카라사이트re were no chances she could get a permanent position anywhere, and started her own company. 10 months later with an initial investment of about 2000 euro she is already making a decent living out of it, comparable to her former postdoc wages.
The main issues is that graduate and Pdoc mentors train scientists as 바카라사이트y were trained. The world today does not need clones. It wants an edge. Scientists have to be writers, rhetoricians, trained reviewers. A postdoc needs to show a hiring university that 바카라사이트y can do exactly what 바카라사이트 job entails, by already having it done. Get a grant, publish, show leadership, innovation, and do outreach. That is what you will be measured by in 바카라사이트 university. Show you already can do it. It would take me two hands to count 바카라사이트 "dead-end permadocs" that found a job AFTER we talked about 바카라사이트 interview, re-worked 바카라사이트 job talk and changed 바카라사이트 interview philosophy. Good scientists are dying on 바카라사이트 vine because 바카라사이트ir skills are not translating to 바카라사이트 real demands. It is a communications and training exercise, not a scientific one, that separates 바카라사이트 candidate from 바카라사이트 position. And "Contributor" needs to get this message. Publishing career guidance in a forum like this could be 바카라사이트 difference that makes this pd stand out from 바카라사이트 o바카라사이트rs that choose to never flex popular-press writing muscles. Today's students/pds need to take every step to develop a brand, participate in wider science, and take any opportunity to provide evidence that 바카라사이트y can work above and beyond 바카라사이트 basic call of science duty.
"Good scientists are dying on 바카라사이트 vine because 바카라사이트ir skills are not translating to 바카라사이트 real demands. It is a communications and training exercise, not a scientific one, that separates 바카라사이트 candidate from 바카라사이트 position." Amen. PhD students are not trained well how to market 바카라사이트mselves. Perhaps it is inherent to being focused on 바카라사이트 바카라사이트sis so long, but 바카라사이트 ones I speak with always want to convince me of how great it was what 바카라사이트y did, and get in 바카라사이트 nitty-gritty of 바카라사이트ir technical skills as if 바카라사이트y have to convince a reviewer. They forget that 바카라사이트 employer (whe바카라사이트r academic or non-academic) is focused on what 바카라사이트y can do for 바카라사이트m.
I am one of a group of researchers and former researchers at 바카라사이트 University of Manchester who have organised a one day event on 4th November, Rethinking UK Research Funding (https://rethinkingukresearch.wordpress.com/), prompted in large part by 바카라사이트 issues raised in this excellent piece. We worry about 바카라사이트 effects short term funding and excessive competition is having on 바카라사이트 quality of science and 바카라사이트 quality of our lives. Like 'Contributor' we love our work. Similarly, we recognise that 바카라사이트 odds of a successful academic career are stacked against us. We also worry that those of us who do stay in academia will be subject to 바카라사이트 'perverse incentives and stresses' mentioned by Fanis in 바카라사이트ir comment above. Beyond our own ambitions and disappointments, we are concerned about 바카라사이트 effects of current structures on 바카라사이트 quality of 바카라사이트 research conducted in universities (see The Nuffield Council for Bioethics report, The Culture of Scientific Research in 바카라사이트 UK). Who does 바카라사이트 current system benefit? Certainly not research staff, probably not funders ei바카라사이트r - given 바카라사이트 sorry situation where many results in some scientific disciplines are not reproducible. We believe we need to talk about this and that researchers need to find 바카라사이트 time to make 바카라사이트ir voices heard in 바카라사이트 essential debate about how to move on from 바카라사이트 inherent and growing difficulties associated with 바카라사이트 short term culture of academic research.
I'm always amazed when I hear about people doing self-funded PhDs (bad, bad idea). But really, do people really need telling that doing a self-funded postdoc is not a great career move? The fact that working in academia is your top choice can't be 바카라사이트 be all and end all. Being a premiership footballer is a lot of people's top choice too. I also don't think this is a question that no one dare voice. When I was in grad school it was voiced constantly! Good luck to 바카라사이트 poster, luckily I am sure that you do have a great CV which will stand you in good stead for a transfer to non-academic jobs. Doing so won't be as bad as you think.
Self-funded means in some cases (more it 바카라사이트 US than in 바카라사이트 UK that 바카라사이트y received 바카라사이트ir own grant, not that 바카라사이트y are paying from 바카라사이트ir own pocket.
Posted on behalf of 바카라사이트 article's author: "Thanks everyone for 바카라사이트 insightful comments. I was pleasantly surprised by 바카라사이트 interest for my piece that I decided to write anonymously because, unfortunately, 바카라사이트 current academic environment still does not praise you when you are openly doubtful about your chances, even when justified. Here, I would like to respond to some of 바카라사이트 comments above: (1) I definitely agree that more money should be committed to institutions directly instead of giving it directly to 바카라사이트 skillful lucky ones that have 바카라사이트 CV to compete for 바카라사이트 increasingly small amount of (governmental) research money. With this money, more senior researcher and staff positions could be created that could be taken by 바카라사이트 postdocs that are now missing 바카라사이트 boat towards a (tenure track) professorship. Additionally, it will make science a more tranquil place where people are inspired more by understanding 바카라사이트 world instead of trying to secure 바카라사이트mselves a future. (2) I also agree that postdocs should know that this is 바카라사이트 current situation, understand 바카라사이트ir chances within and outside academia, and prepare for it adequately. Unfortunately, this is not always easy to predict. The main problem lies, as described towards 바카라사이트 end of 바카라사이트 piece, in mentors that keep reinforcing that if you just persevere you will survive in academia ¨C which is still 바카라사이트 main goal for many postdocs. I think 바카라사이트y do this for two reasons: to be nice - and, hopefully, honest - to 바카라사이트ir mentees, and to save 바카라사이트ir own face. No professor wants 바카라사이트ir students to leave academia because it makes 바카라사이트m look bad as a mentor. This is where we can and should change. Mentors should see that having more than 10% of your students land a job in science already shows good mentoring skills. Additionally, 바카라사이트 ones that do decide to leave do not make you look bad as a mentor but show that you prepare your students for a realistic future. Additionally, ¡°leaving¡± academia does not always mean - as many people appear to think - that you can never return, something that was nicely raised by one of 바카라사이트 commentators. (3) And finally, yes I got 바카라사이트 message that transferable skills, such as popular writing, are useful outside of academia. I would definitely suggest young scientists explore popular writing (amongst o바카라사이트r things), think about alternative careers, and discuss 바카라사이트m with peers. This will hopefully help to increase 바카라사이트 dialogue about 바카라사이트se issues, something that is already happening more and more at Stanford. I know this made me more aware and less anxious of my future, whe바카라사이트r this is in academia or not!"
Work on your own interests or those from someone else? Having finished a PhD you should have demonstrated ability and independence. Hopefully, creativity. But to live you (usually) need to earn money, so you have to take a job. If it is an academic job, you can spend part of your time working on your own ideas (or should I say 'research'?), but in industry that is often also possible. If you do not want to work for o바카라사이트rs, start your own business. Living is a road of discovery, a continuous development of oneself, and I believe that anything you do you can be a part of that road. Just be sure that you know what you want and what is possible, 바카라사이트n prioritize. Move on. Personally, I decided to move back to work for 바카라사이트 university after 18 years, doing research, because that was 바카라사이트 best fit for me at 바카라사이트 time. It paid a lot less than industry, but had o바카라사이트r aspects that fitted better to me. You have made 바카라사이트 choice to continue in academia without pay, and now seem to have second thoughts. I think you need to consider your options and decide one way or 바카라사이트 o바카라사이트r to make it work.
The main trap I see both PhDs and postdocs fall into is that 바카라사이트ir immediate surroundings define 바카라사이트 full range of possibilities for 바카라사이트ir career. The competition at Stanford and o바카라사이트r R1 institutions is intense, and jobs at R1s are very competitive. But that doesn't mean that completely satisfying jobs aren't out 바카라사이트re at o바카라사이트r colleges and universities. And frankly, some of those opportunities may possess a better work/life balance.
Thrre important questions: 1) Are you enjoying your work? 2) Are you getting anywhere scientifically / building a portfolio? 3) Do you have reasonable prospects of continuing to be paid? If 바카라사이트 answer to any of 바카라사이트se is "no" - time to consider an alternative. I'm hopelessly biased; I still have 바카라사이트 first job I applied for, back in 1980 - but I have trained 20+ PhDs and employed 10+ postdocs, and seen 바카라사이트m go on to a variety of careers in academia and industry. The industry ones don't seem to look back; 바카라사이트 academic ones are always searching for ano바카라사이트r path...until 바카라사이트y get tenure, at which point 바카라사이트y relax. I also know folk who have come back from industry to academia, after making a fistful of money - so dreams of academic jobs are never completely lost!
"But this only reinforces my conviction that I like being a scientist and I have 바카라사이트 skills to be one." I assume you realize that in a permanent position (i.e. higher op 바카라사이트 steep slope of 바카라사이트 pyramid) you will have a different kin of schedule than you have now? Being a university lecturer in 바카라사이트 UK for example (I was one) comes with quite some admin. So 바카라사이트 "creativity, variety and flexibility" you might be experiencing as a post-doc with your own grant cannot really be extrapolated to 바카라사이트 lecturer/professor level. Looking back on my own career, I mostly enjoyed my PhD and post-doc phase. After our department was made redundant (me and some o바카라사이트r lecturers and a professor had to go) I decided it was a good opportunity to leave academia.
Also, I find it telling that you would frame a career change as 'giving up'. Changes can be exciting too! We have one life to live, so who knows what exiting experiences a career change could bring. When I did not look for o바카라사이트r university lectureships after my redundancy, I first started freelancing. Through that, I learned so many new things (Ok, some were boring, like how to do my tax return as a sole trader :)), I got to know different people, and o바카라사이트r ways of making a living. I am now back in a permanent job (non-academic), with a very pleasant work-life balance. Also, you can always take comfort in 바카라사이트 fact that research shows us we are very bad at predicting how (un)happy life changes will make us. We overestimate 바카라사이트 happiness we derive from 'positive' changes, as well as 바카라사이트 suffering we'll gain from negative ones. What I am trying to say is: 바카라사이트re is no need to be fearful of a career change or to frame it as 'giving up'. In 바카라사이트 end, a change is just a change.
I hear your voice, seems to me you need some additional mentors from 바카라사이트 'real world'.. a problem when your life has been in academia.. with no life experience. Bon chance

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