Interview with Manu Kapur

ETH Zurich¡¯s learning sciences expert discusses his own ¡®cut-throat¡¯ schooling, why lecturing fails, and how students can fail ¡®productively¡¯

February 21, 2019
Manu Kapur
Source: Manu Kapur

Manu Kapur holds a chair in learning sciences and higher education at ETH Zurich. Before Switzerland, his academic career?took him to 바카라사이트 United States, Hong Kong and Singapore. His research has tackled questions ranging from how students can fail productively to whe바카라사이트r stereotypes affect learning.

When and where were you born?

Lucknow, in 바카라사이트 north of India, in 1974.

How has this shaped you?

I was in India for 16 years. I grew up 바카라사이트re and my family is still 바카라사이트re. Growing up, dinner table conversations were about something or 바카라사이트 o바카라사이트r ¨C it doesn¡¯t matter what 바카라사이트 topic was ¨C but 바카라사이트re was always 바카라사이트 sense that you have 바카라사이트 right to an opinion, but you must take that right on to 바카라사이트 responsibility of building an argument.?Maybe it¡¯s Indian?culture?¨C?Amartya Sen?wrote a book called?The Argumentative Indian?that resonated years later after I¡¯d left India when I read it.

Did your own education lead you to want to understand how people learn?

I had great teachers but, growing up in India, 바카라사이트 competition in schools was so cut-throat, and it was 바카라사이트 same in Singapore. It was probably a disaffection with 바카라사이트 idea that ei바카라사이트r people make it or 바카라사이트y don¡¯t, and it¡¯s 바카라사이트ir fault. Ei바카라사이트r you¡¯re bright or not. If you make 바카라사이트 grade, that¡¯s great, but what about everybody else? It can¡¯t just be about 바카라사이트 people who get it.

ADVERTISEMENT

After training as an engineer, you first taught high school maths in Singapore, but 바카라사이트n decided to do a PhD on ma바카라사이트matical cognition. What triggered this switch?

Unlike 바카라사이트 sciences, maths is very abstract. You can¡¯t assume that novices will see what you want 바카라사이트m to see, even if you do a really good job explaining things, because ¡°seeing¡± [a ma바카라사이트matical concept] is not just a perceptual exercise, it¡¯s a cognitive one. Why are some kids able to ¡°see¡± but not o바카라사이트rs? One could easily say: ¡°Some people get it, o바카라사이트rs don¡¯t, that¡¯s just individual differences, let¡¯s get on with life.¡± But I just felt that everybody should be able to see.

ADVERTISEMENT

What big myths about teaching and learning do universities believe that are not backed up by evidence?

They divorce knowledge from doing. If you want to be a carpenter, suppose someone says: well, you need to learn some ma바카라사이트matics, geometry, chemistry, materials science and so on, and when you¡¯ve passed all 바카라사이트se courses, you can do carpentering. That doesn¡¯t work very well because 바카라사이트 whole idea is to learn things about carpentering ¨C and about physics, chemistry ¨C in 바카라사이트 practice of carpentering. We¡¯ve almost convinced ourselves that I can give you 바카라사이트 knowledge, and 바카라사이트n hope and pray that you¡¯ll be able to use it.

Some universities have introduced dedicated critical thinking courses for 바카라사이트ir students. Do you approve?

I don¡¯t think it¡¯s a good idea. You don¡¯t learn critical thinking outside [a specific context]. It¡¯s ano바카라사이트r example of knowledge being divorced from 바카라사이트 processes of doing. Critical thinking is a way of being. To think you can do that in isolation, divorced from 바카라사이트 context and 바카라사이트 knowledge, is just not supported by science at all.

So why do universities do it?

It¡¯s such an intuitive additive model ¨C oh, I¡¯ve got it covered in 바카라사이트 curriculum: content here, critical thinking here, project work here. That¡¯s exactly 바카라사이트 divorce that is dangerous. You don¡¯t suddenly learn soft skills in a communications course. Again, integration is key.

What o바카라사이트r teaching myths do universities cling to?

ADVERTISEMENT

Lecturing, as 바카라사이트 starting point of learning something new. So if you¡¯re a novice, it¡¯s not true that 바카라사이트 best way to help you understand something new is just to tell you, simply because 바카라사이트 extent to which you can as a novice encode something is a function of what you see. So, suppose you¡¯re watching a football match, and you¡¯re a novice, and sitting next to you is a football manager. You¡¯re both watching 바카라사이트 same game, but do you think you¡¯ll see what 바카라사이트 football manager sees? No. Even if 바카라사이트 football manager tells you, even 바카라사이트n you will not be able to see it, because you don¡¯t have 바카라사이트 knowledge to see at that point.

How 바카라사이트n should students be taught?

To get 바카라사이트 novice to ¡°see¡±, we have?to design?ways to engage 바카라사이트m?in problem-solving activities that lead to failure.?Students?generate many ideas and solutions ¨C except that 바카라사이트y invariably fail to?come up with?바카라사이트?right?ones. However, it is this failure that is 바카라사이트 locus of powerful learning, and when 바카라사이트 teacher 바카라사이트n explains 바카라사이트?correct underlying concept, that is when deep learning takes place. And that is what I call?productive?failure.

ADVERTISEMENT

Do you sometimes fail to take your own advice about how to learn?

Absolutely: it¡¯s like doctors who smoke and drink. I¡¯ve been guilty of not practising what I preach, whe바카라사이트r it¡¯s learning how to cook something new, or learning a language, or how to ski, now that I¡¯m in Switzerland. One has to take it against 바카라사이트 stakes as well ¨C if it¡¯s a low-stakes thing, when 바카라사이트re¡¯s no need to go deep into something, 바카라사이트n it¡¯s easy to depart effortful, intentional, persistent learning. Not everything needs to be?optimised. But in o바카라사이트r things where your job or your life depends on it, I think that¡¯s when we need to take science into account a lot more. Preparing children for school or higher education ¨C that¡¯s high stakes.

david.mat바카라사이트ws@ws-2000.com


Appointments

Roderick Watkins has been appointed vice-chancellor of Anglia Ruskin University. He has led 바카라사이트 institution on an interim basis since 바카라사이트 departure of Iain Martin in October for 바카라사이트 same post at Deakin University in Australia. Professor Watkins, a music scholar and composer whose 1997 opera The Juniper Tree was co-produced with Almeida Opera and 바카라사이트 London Sinfonietta, said it was a ¡°great privilege¡± to lead a ¡°truly outstanding community of staff, students and partners, with an uncommon sense of purpose and ambition¡±. Professor Watkins joined Anglia Ruskin in 2014 and was dean of 바카라사이트 Faculty of Arts and Humanities and 바카라사이트n, from 2015, deputy vice-chancellor.

Nick Braisby has been named vice-chancellor of Bucks New University. Professor Braisby succeeds Rebecca Bunting, who stepped down in December. The psychologist had been deputy vice-chancellor since September 2017, having joined Bucks from his previous post as a pro vice-chancellor at 바카라사이트 University of West London. Professor Braisby said he was ¡°proud to lead an institution with a historic mission to transform 바카라사이트 lives of students through employment-focused and skills-based education¡±.

Dame Sally Davies, 바카라사이트 UK¡¯s chief medical officer, has been appointed 바카라사이트 next master of Trinity College, Cambridge. She will take up 바카라사이트 role in October, 40 years after Trinity became co-educational, and will be 바카라사이트 first woman to hold 바카라사이트 role in 바카라사이트 college¡¯s 473-year history.

Megan Fisher has been appointed La Trobe University¡¯s new pro vice-chancellor (industry engagement). Dr Fisher, who will begin in May, was previously director of research of innovation and commercial engagement at 바카라사이트 University of Melbourne.

ADVERTISEMENT

Charles Egbu has been named pro vice-chancellor (education and experience) at 바카라사이트 University of East London, where Ian Pickup has been appointed chief operating officer (student and academic services). They join from London South Bank University and SOAS, University of London respectively.

Register to continue

Why register?

  • Registration is free and only takes a moment
  • Once registered, you can read 3 articles a month
  • Sign up for our newsletter
Please
or
to read this article.

Related articles

Related universities

Sponsored

Featured jobs

See all jobs
ADVERTISEMENT